49 minutes ago, Sundog said:

How do you know the Earth was hotter or colder in the past?

weren't there a few ice ages?...something that will become a disaster if it happens again...the world has been warming with a few setbacks since the last ice age...when and if the warming stops is the question...is co2 preventing the next ice age?...that would be a good thing...all this won't matter when the sun becomes a red giant...

4 minutes ago, uncle w said:

weren't there a few ice ages?...something that will become a disaster if it happens again...the world has been warming with a few setbacks since the last ice age...when and if the warming stops is the question...is co2 preventing the next ice age?...that would be a good thing...all this won't matter when the sun becomes a red giant...

I am asking how do you know all this? How does ChesterCounty know the climate has been different in the past?

How does he know it wasn't just always exactly the same?

55 minutes ago, Sundog said:

How do you know the Earth was hotter or colder in the past?

Based on sadly very inexact proxy type records that are not refined enough to provide anything close to thermometer readings since 1850.... so only viewed as generalities. However, it has been roughly approximated and theorized through ocean sediments, and primitive tree ring analysis etc. to try and approximate some sort of unscientific estimates. These sort of views have generally tried to say it was both warmer and colder in past climate cycles than our current warming cycle. Again far from any kind of exact science - but the best we have beyond the much better thermometer data we have since the late 1800's.

For the record I now hate the cold so an xtra 2 degrees in the spring and fall are welcomed.

Anthony is rooting for more Arctic melting so it puts the Gulf stream at risk

Would give Europe a mini ice age - i bet he would move there.

2 minutes ago, Sundog said:

I am asking how do you know all this? How does ChesterCounty know the climate has been different in the past?

How does he know it wasn't just always exactly the same?

If we are only speaking about actual factual climate data of Chester County PA all we can say with scientific certainty is that it has in fact had both warmer and cooler cycles than our current warming cycle since records began over 130 years ago in the 1890's. That is all we know. Plus last time I checked there is no climate fence around Chester County. Just the facts here! No warming experienced to date has yet eclipsed our warmest decade of the 1930's

2 minutes ago, ChescoWeather said:

If we are only speaking about actual factual climate data of Chester County PA all we can say with scientific certainty is that it has in fact had both warmer and cooler cycles than our current warming cycle since records began over 130 years ago in the 1890's. That is all we know. Plus last time I checked there is no climate fence around Chester County. Just the facts here! No warming experienced to date has yet eclipsed our warmest decade of the 1930's

Do you think the state of Pennsylvania going from 30% forest coverage to 60% forest coverage can have any effect on the state's overall temperature averages?

9 minutes ago, THE GREAT Ben Solo said:

For the record I now hate the cold so an xtra 2 degrees in the spring and fall are welcomed.

Anthony is rooting for more Arctic melting so it puts the Gulf stream at risk

Would give Europe a mini ice age - i bet he would move there.

if you want to speculate, buy land in Canada or Greenland...

27 minutes ago, Sundog said:

I am asking how do you know all this? How does ChesterCounty know the climate has been different in the past?

How does he know it wasn't just always exactly the same?

Forest Patk in Queens has the hills because it was on the leading edge of a glacier many years ago. Park Lane South was right near the end of it where it stopped. I would think to get a glacier. It would have to have been very cold.

23 minutes ago, Sundog said:

Do you think the state of Pennsylvania going from 30% forest coverage to 60% forest coverage can have any effect on the state's overall temperature averages?

Could have been minor impact for sure...but can you tell me what you estimate that impact may have been in degrees specifically for Chester County? Were all areas of Chester County impacted? Which decades were most impacted from your research?

38 minutes ago, THE GREAT Ben Solo said:

For the record I now hate the cold so an xtra 2 degrees in the spring and fall are welcomed.

Anthony is rooting for more Arctic melting so it puts the Gulf stream at risk

Would give Europe a mini ice age - i bet he would move there.

I like cold Nov-about March 20th when snow threats dwindle. I cheer on torch springs and falls as temps from the 40s to upper 60s are useless and stll uncomfortable. Summer is always warm, so if is 88 or 92, all the same. Its warm.

6 minutes ago, ChescoWeather said:

Could have been minor impact for sure...but can you tell me what you estimate that impact may have been in degrees specifically for Chester County? Were all areas of Chester County impacted? Which decades were most impacted from your research?

"Forest regrowth in the eastern United States over the last century has acted as a significant regional cooling mechanism, mitigating the effects of global warming. Widespread reforestation has cooled the land surface by 1.8-3.6F annually and lowered midday summer air temperatures by 3.6-9F, largely contributing to the "warming hole" (a region with limited temperature increases) observed in this area."

Key Impacts of Forest Regrowth on Temperature (1920s–2020s)

• Regional Cooling Trend: While the US as a whole warmed, large parts of the East saw stable or reduced temperatures (a "warming hole") in the 20th century, largely attributed to the return of forests.

• Surface and Air Cooling: Forests in the eastern U.S. now significantly reduce both surface and near-surface air temperatures, particularly through transpiration and increased surface roughness, which disperses heat.

• Maximum Impact in Summer: The strongest cooling benefits are observed during the day in the summer growing season.

• Most Effective Age: Forests that are 25 to 50 years old provide the strongest cooling effect, suggesting that ongoing maturing of forests continues to provide benefits.

Mechanism of Action
Forests act as a buffer by absorbing solar energy for photosynthesis rather than allowing it to heat the ground. This, combined with the cooling effect of transpiration (release of water vapor), keeps the surrounding air significantly cooler than adjacent cropland or pastureland.

Contextual Factors

• The "Warming Hole": Reforestation is considered a key factor, though not the only one, for the lack of significant warming in the Eastern U.S. compared to the global average.

• Long-Term Mitigation: This regrowth indicates that land use management and reforestation are effective local tools for climate adaptation, offering substantial, sustainable, and natural relief from extreme heat.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2023EF003663

6 minutes ago, Sundog said:

"Forest regrowth in the eastern United States over the last century has acted as a significant regional cooling mechanism, mitigating the effects of global warming. Widespread reforestation has cooled the land surface by 1.8-3.6F annually and lowered midday summer air temperatures by 3.6-9F, largely contributing to the "warming hole" (a region with limited temperature increases) observed in this area."

Key Impacts of Forest Regrowth on Temperature (1920s–2020s)

• Regional Cooling Trend: While the US as a whole warmed, large parts of the East saw stable or reduced temperatures (a "warming hole") in the 20th century, largely attributed to the return of forests.

• Surface and Air Cooling: Forests in the eastern U.S. now significantly reduce both surface and near-surface air temperatures, particularly through transpiration and increased surface roughness, which disperses heat.

• Maximum Impact in Summer: The strongest cooling benefits are observed during the day in the summer growing season.

• Most Effective Age: Forests that are 25 to 50 years old provide the strongest cooling effect, suggesting that ongoing maturing of forests continues to provide benefits.

Mechanism of Action
Forests act as a buffer by absorbing solar energy for photosynthesis rather than allowing it to heat the ground. This, combined with the cooling effect of transpiration (release of water vapor), keeps the surrounding air significantly cooler than adjacent cropland or pastureland.

Contextual Factors

• The "Warming Hole": Reforestation is considered a key factor, though not the only one, for the lack of significant warming in the Eastern U.S. compared to the global average.

• Long-Term Mitigation: This regrowth indicates that land use management and reforestation are effective local tools for climate adaptation, offering substantial, sustainable, and natural relief from extreme heat.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2023EF003663

So when were those forests planted in Chester County?? it must have been after the 1950's as the county experienced almost constant warming from 1901-1955 as you can see (actual monthly departure from average chart below) with the average monthly 10 year climate normal calculations for the county starting with the 1901-1930 period and updated every 10 years. Plus when we then look to the next cooling cycle which followed we find actual reality just nowhere near the 1.8 to 3.6 F shown above as the actual cooling was only between 0.2 and 2.4 degrees F - again very minor and cyclical!

3 minutes ago, ChescoWeather said:

So when were those forests planted in Chester County?? it must have been after the 1950's as the county experienced almost constant warming from 1901-1955 as you can see (actual monthly departure from average chart below) with the average monthly 10 year climate normal calculations for the county starting with the 1901-1930 period and updated every 10 years. Plus when we then look to the next cooling cycle which followed we find actual reality just nowhere near the 1.8 to 3.6 F shown above as the actual cooling was only between 0.2 and 2.4 degrees F - again very minor and cyclical!

All I asked you was can forests going from 30% coverage to 60% coverage statewide have an effect on temperature. Those numbers are state wide averages, so local places will be affected by local changes.

I posted the mechanisms involved in affecting temperatures through reforestation.

Would you agree that forests vs grassland will result in different temperature averages?

3 hours ago, Sundog said:

All I asked you was can forests going from 30% coverage to 60% coverage statewide have an effect on temperature. Those numbers are state wide averages, so local places will be affected by local changes.

I posted the mechanisms involved in affecting temperatures through reforestation.

Would you agree that forests vs grassland will result in different temperature averages?

I guess but clearly not much at all for Chester County PA which we show above....

Tuesday seems like a good day for wall to wall sunshine.

Widespread lows were in the 30’s overnight with some valley locations near or below freezing this morning. The lowest reading was the 31.5 at Warwick Township. That is tied for the 2^nd coldest reading for today’s date across Chester County behind only the 31-degree low recorded at Coatesville in 1907 and Morgantown in 1963, That may well be our last freezing observation across the county until October. We continue with below normal temperatures through the rest of the work week before we warm up to well above normal temperatures starting Saturday and into next week. Rain chances increase by tomorrow night into Thursday morning.

10 hours ago, ChescoWeather said:

I guess but clearly not much at all for Chester County PA which we show above....

Great.

So let's ignore for a moment all fossil fuel driven climate change.

Humans have reduced the global forest coverage by one third since we started chopping down trees, or a piece of land almost the size of the United States and Canada combined. The vast majority of that clear cutting happened during the 20th century and is continuing into the present.

Knowing now how forest coverage affects surface temperatures, do you agree that just the fact that we have lost one third of our global forests would have a positive temperature departure effect on the Earth's surface?

11 minutes ago, Sundog said:

Great.

So let's ignore for a moment all fossil fuel driven climate change.

Humans have reduced the global forest coverage by one third since we started chopping down trees, or a piece of land almost the size of the United States and Canada combined. The vast majority of that clear cutting happened during the 20th century and is continuing into the present.

Knowing now how forest coverage affects surface temperatures, do you agree that just the fact that we have lost one third of our global forests would have a positive temperature departure effect on the Earth's surface?

Probably a net warming, but nights could actually be colder.

7 minutes ago, Analog1888 said:

Probably a net warming, but nights could actually be colder.

Correct I agree. Net warming overall.

But radiational cooling (depending on surface type) could be slightly better.